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Wed. April 15, 1998
Creation vs. Evolution
Wowza. I attended my first debate covering the issue of evolution vs. creation. Both sides presented themselves rather well with the exception of a few things. There was some redundancy, some false/unproven facts, and some distorted perspectives on numbers and time. Although I sincerely believe in the idea of evolution being the major driving force in the development of our life, solar system and universe, one thing is true from a debate such as this: Creation is not science. There is room in the world for both evolution and creation simply because one is a science and one is a belief.
After the debate I was left with a lingering emotion. This ticked me off because I like to be a person that knows what their thinking. I came to a conclusion that the feeling was one based on small event that took place during the debate. Some people sitting near me were obvious evolutionists. As the creationist spoke like a politician, these two people were abhorred. The insisted upon talking to one another to make sure their disgust was known. I came to the conclusion that what annoyed me was just this. I am not against anyone having an opinion about a topic. However, when an opinion interferes with a person's listening skills, nothing is accomplished. We went to a debate to listen to the debate, not to listen to each other. Even if ideas being presented don't directly agree with yours, you listen. With listening comes information. With information comes understanding. With understanding comes a common ground. And with a common ground, debates like last night's wouldn't have to even take place at all.
Comments (31) | To Top
5/26/2005 @ 5:37pm
i believe that creation is true. E.g. if the world is really like five billion years old, the earth's magnetism would be so strong that the earth would've been flattened. Evolution is ridiculous
by lauren
10/3/2005 @ 10:43pm
Which is belief,which is science. There is no proof for evolutionsi itmust be belief. Look at Genesis 1:1. There is a God, he created you, and he loves you.
by Stephen
5/8/2006 @ 11:27am
Great article, that was interesting
by Behind a PC
2/11/2007 @ 9:04pm
The Earth's magnetic field just keeps varying like the alternating current in your house. The Earth's magnetic field hits a maximum, then weakens down to 0, then starts building again in the opposite direction. So after a while a compass will end up pointing south instead of north. Then the field weakens again and builds up in the opposite direction meaning the compass will again point north. And on and on. Some scientists recently did a simulation of the Earth's core and its magnetic field on a supercomputer and the simulation produced just such a reversal, see: WHEN NORTH GOES SOUTH: Three-Dimensional Simulation of Geomagnetic Field Reversal. Good try.
by richard
5/7/2007 @ 8:06pm
this site isnt helping! make it better!!
by stacy
5/7/2007 @ 8:08pm
i believe in evolution, genetics and all that stuff, i think it's who ever is the strongest will servive! prove me wrong and write ur answer,......
by suzana
5/7/2007 @ 8:09pm
survive sorry not my best spelling
by suzana
12/10/2007 @ 1:26pm
if evolution was true wouldn't we still be evolving besides prove to me that evolutions true
by Ethan
12/10/2007 @ 1:28pm
No Offence but i can't believe that u believe in that dumb stuff its crazy, u really think that randomly we evolved from a unicellular orginism and then soon became human? I mean come on thats ridiculous
by Ethan
3/26/2008 @ 12:38pm
Very well put. Evolution is a scientific theory, which states right there that there will definitely be signs for and against it. A religious belief should never cloud the way of science.
If God created everything, and evolution certainly exists (which, even certain Creationists believe in micro and some forms of macro evolution), then wouldn't God have to have been the one to create Evolution?
And, yes, we are still evolving. If you think of the many ways we've improved our lives and evolved our brain toward a technologically advanced world, you can't help but believe in Evolution. Evolution isn't always growing another leg or gills...it's small steps that add up over time. 5-6 billion years would just about do it.
by Erin
4/2/2008 @ 6:21pm
To believe that we came from NOTHING requires infinitely more faith than to believe that "In the beginning God created...."
Therefore, evolution is more a religion than ANY other religion!
by Victor
4/15/2008 @ 7:38pm
First there was NOTHING, and then IT exploded? Definitely takes more faith to believe that than a gracious loving all powerful Creator designing eveything and then bringing it into being. You simply need to think simply. If you can explain how protien and DNA came into being through evolution, you will have a powerful argument. As it stands now, they both had to be created at the exact same time, because one CANNOT exist without the other. If you can reason that a creature , somehow deciding it wants to fly now, grew a wing, you will have a good argument. You will still need to define how he decided to grow the other one.If you can explain what makes a sperm egg decide to swim up, find the egg, and penetrate it, somehow insinctively, without a grand Designer having created it to do so, you will have something to build on. If you can identify the way a bat developed a sonar system to locate it's food, seeing they are blind, without the sytem being formulated by Jesus Christ Himself, you might convince someone that a theory, thought up by a man, to decieve nations, and turn as many people away from God as possible, might have some evolved legs to stand on.
by isaac
4/16/2008 @ 8:55am
Wow! I did not know Charles Darwin had such a well-known agenda to turn people away from God. And the part about Jesus Christ himself inventing sonar for bats? That is one talented son of God!
by Girl of a Feather
4/16/2008 @ 3:27pm
Now...if you believe that God created everything…that's great. Good for you. I don't believe that. Now...is there any reason why I cannot bring my facts to the table, and have you logically and objectively look at them? And vice versa?
We seem to, as a people, be naturally defensive when there isn't really a reason to be so. Scientists in labs, over and over again, have been able to create single-celled life forms from electricity (not unlike lightning) and water.
We see hundreds of transitional species of all shapes and sizes...but, scientists still readily say that there are still things out there that we will never know. Or...if we do figure it out, it'll be a long time before it happens. Until then, we ride the wave of contemporary understanding that the two groups, science and religion, should stay as far away from one another as possible. Maybe even as humanly possible.
It's not my right to say that what you believe is wrong, nor is it yours, but can you prove to me that God exists without taking some bit of a manipulated scientific theory or idea?
Prove to me the global flood. Prove to me that Jesus wasn't just a prophet that was extremely holy, much like the original Jewish-esque Pope. Prove that he rose from the dead and that his body wasn’t just moved and buried in an undisclosed and unknown location to keep the new Christian faith alive and strong.
Now...prove to me that fish grew legs and got up on land. No problem, there's fossil evidence for that. Prove to me that dinosaurs and birds have a definite biological and familial connection. No problem...fossil evidence supports that.
Science doesn’t need to prove anything to anyone, really. I don’t play in the dirt and dig up dinosaurs because I can’t wait to make the Christians see that the rocks I’m actually digging in art 150 million years old. We/I do it because of the pursuit of knowledge. Religious people that attack science because of fear of the unknown need only to read a book that doesn't rhyme with Bolee Fibal and see that there's a whole world out there that they’re missing.
If God did indeed create the world through an awesome bang and started the miracle of life with single-celled organisms, giving them the ability to merge and become other creatures, and those creatures become other creatures, wouldn't you desire knowledge of that? What if science is a way to see how God made this place and everything in it?
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that science is evil. Nowhere in the Bible does it mention evolution. But compare scientific knowledge back then to the knowledge we have now. What are we capable of now that there was no way of knowing 4,000 years ago?
I hope a lot. I hope that one day I can sit with a Creationist and tell them of new discoveries and things that excite and inspire me, and though I don't have that direct channel through a supernatural being of sorts, that they will understand my discoveries on a different level. That it will inspire them to rejoice that a new piece of their God's creation had been discovered.
Rather that than a hostile reaction on the scales of which even Jesus would be ashamed.
More than George Bush needs to learn how to turn the other cheek.
by Erin
4/17/2008 @ 10:49pm
Hey Erin, I like your style. Facts, and logic. There are definitely too many bruises over this subject. Hey Girl of a feather, I like your style too. Darwin was not bashful about his desire to prove creation wrong, you might be interested in researching his history. Your right Erin, proving Jesus resurrection is a tough task, but if you consider what the Bible says about it in 1 Corinthians 15:14, "And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless,and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that He raised Christ from the dead. But He did not raise Him, if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile: you are still in your sins. Then those who have died in Christ are lost. If only in this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men. But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead." This subject, the resurrection of Jesus, was as much an issue in 62 A.D. as it is today. But I hope you will consider the 11 disciples who lived with and followed Christ to the cross. Many watched Him be crucufied. They watched Him die. Then they all claimed to spend time with, and talk with, their risen Savior, after His resurrection. Then the eleven spent the rest of their lives preaching the message of forgivness of sins and eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ dying for mankinds sin, until each one was brutally murdered for preaching a message that each one would have known was a lie, if Christ did not ressurect. To believe a man would die for a cause is one thing, to believe that eleven seperate men, with individual intellects and wills, would die for something they knew was a lie, is absurd. the Aposle Paul, the man who wrote the book of 1Corinthians, was beheaded in 66 A.D. for preaching the message of Christ death, burial and ressurection.
Science is a gift of God to mankind. But If we get close to figuring out how something was created, should we eliminate the one who created it? The Bible says "the fool says in his heart 'there is no God.'"Psalm 14:1 You and i know there is a paradox in science: it's only bedrock is that there is no bedrock; everything science knows is subject to change. Nothing is ever finally proven in science. Charles Darwin's freind Thomas Huxley wrote this, "Sit down before the facts as a little child, be prepared to give up every preconcieved notion, follow humbly wherever and whatever abysses nature leads, or you will learn nothing." Kind of him to echo in a way Christ himself who said in Matthew 18:3, " I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."
by isaac
4/21/2008 @ 1:09pm
Well said Isaac. I grew up Christian, so at one time I did believe in Christ. I almost still do on some levels...but I have problems with taking the Bible literally since it was told by mouth for generations and finally written hundreds of years after the events occurred. Most of the Old Testament, to me, has been morphed from fact to fiction, mostly in terms of myths being born from original deeds.
But...you are like many of my still Christian friends. You have no problem logically and intelligently making a statement without being hurtful or without a basic understanding of what the conversation has been about.
I'm glad that there are still "crusaders" like you out there, because I have been bruised many a time over this subject by the Bible-thumping Christians, and I'm sure it's been a vice-vera situation where I've bruised right back to defend myself. I don't have a problem with Creationists applying science to their every-day walks with God...but I do have a probem when science is incorrectly used to explain why science is wrong.
Bravo to you, Isaac, for being a man of patience and understanding, and not one to put another down for not sharing (at least not fully) his own belief.
-Erin
by Erin
4/21/2008 @ 1:33pm
By the way...bat's aren't blind. Sonar/echolocation is just super sensitive hearing and the ability to bounce sounds off of objects and judge their distance. They see almost as well as you and I do...but at night? When we want to catch a bug? Yeah...echolocation is going to win over eyesight every time.
Just reading back through the posts a bit. Kind of have to remember what I said and what was said. And Darwin was Christian, before several findings (and events) in his life took him away from the road of Christianity. So if anyone out there understood what it was like to have a supreme understanding in a religion, and then make a discovery that not only shakes the religion, or your view of it, but removes it completely from your life...I give him respect for that, because I just went through it over the last few years.
I like to think of Darwin as being enlightened more than spiritual or religious. Enlightenment, religion or spirituality can be related to driving a car.
A religious person drives the car and knows the engine will work because he's been told, and has read, that it will.
A spiritual person has a basic understanding of the engine and why it should work, and therefore has faith in someone or something that it will work once it's turned on.
An enlightened person knows full well the complexities of a combustion engine, how each individual part works, and whats going into the mechanics of the car before getting into it, broken or working.
To me...Darwin came from a religious background...and then jumped into a spiritual background, and then went straight to enlightenment. You don't need a book governing your life...you don't need to rely on anyone but yourself to make your reality into the reality that you see. It's awesome just to have a thought for myself and not feel the guilt for having had an intelligent thought.
A fantastic movie to watch, for those interested in reality, Christian and non alike, is What the Bleep Do We Know?
It may take a few pauses for thought to get through it, but it inspires so much thinking and will give you a bigger and brighter understanding as to why we perceive things the way we do as humans...not Christians, Darwinians or Evolutionists, but human beings.
Check it out!
-Erin
by Erin
4/22/2008 @ 10:12pm
Hey Erin, good to hear back from you. I wanted to shoot you a quick note, i do not have time to responde fully to your post tonight, but i will try some time this week. I will try to get my hands on the movie you suggest, let me know if you have any suggestions where i can find it. thanks! isaac
by isaac
4/30/2008 @ 2:07pm
I rented it at Blockbuster. It's a tough one to find to buy I noticed, but my local Block had it, so I lucked it out. I rented the What the Bleep do we Know: Down the Rabbit Hole - the Quantum Edition. It had quantum physics tossed in for fun.
-Erin
by Erin
5/1/2008 @ 2:55am
There is an infinte field, out of which physical matter arises. This field does not have opposites and there is no time. Time is linear and infinity is spherical. If you take a ball as example of the spherical nature of infinity, find the point where it begins and ends. There is none; its a sphere. In the physical world, everything must be composed of opposites or the world would collapse. This has been shown in physics when the tiniest particles come into existence (when I learned about it they were called "besons") and they saw they appeared simultaneoulsy in pairs, spinning in opposite directions. They "disappeared" the same way. God is the infinity, out of which everything is created. The infinity, God, is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent.
God is not a bearded man in the sky, altho that image sort of pervades Christian teaching. Because Jesus was all about love, he told the people of his time, who only feared God, to think of him as a loving father so they could feel a connection.
In any case, both exist, creationism and evolution. Its just we are mostly too unevolved to understand.
by Jennifer
5/7/2008 @ 1:55pm
Well said Jennifer. Why does the Christian God have to be separated from evolution? If he indeed created everything, he created a way for his creatures to evolve as his world changes.
That sat well with me for many years when I was still a Christian. And though I'm not any longer, I've learned from both sides that there are amazing things that happen in this world.
My only concern is Intelligent Design and the IDers that attack Evolution and tread ID as a scientific theory, which it isn't.
A scientific theory must be testable, viewable, proven, and disproven. None of which can be done by using religion, any religion, or religious materials (such as books or works of art) to explain the creation of the earth or even of animals or plants. However,we can and have tested, viewed, proven, and disproven aspects of neo-Darwinism by way of natural selection. That is officially what sets Intelligent Design apart from the theory of evolution. Apples and oranges.
But both can be tasty. I prefer oranges.
by Erin
5/8/2008 @ 1:42pm
The fossil record proves that evolution has occured in Earth's history, such as the evolution of the horse. Examining radiometically dated fossils one can easily observe the small changes that made life easier for the organism. In the matter of Human evolution, I think that we are no different than the fossil we observe. Any religion is based entirely on faith and therefore is nearly impossible to prove. However, theories like evolution and the "big bang" are also nearly impossible to prove. Darwin's work and experiments like the Urey-Miller experiment are major steps for science. Although I like the science side of this debate, I think that religion is great thing. Religion gives people hope, brings people together, and gives them the desire to be decent people.
by Cody
5/9/2008 @ 12:26pm
Great comment Cody! Though..you can prove evolution by way of natural selection, so evolution is a theory that ahs been proven, and disproven in some arenas as well.
-Erin
by Erin
5/12/2008 @ 11:30am
I have read through a few of these answers, most seem like they are coming from people that just believe what they believe about evolution or creation for whatever reason, with no real backing. Like the guy stating there is fossil evidence for Dino's and birds similarities. The only problem with this is the bird-hipped dino's are the ones they think evolved into modern day lizards and the lizard hipped dinos are actually the ones they think evolved into birds. So yes there are quite a few problems. Alan Feduccia is an expert on birds and also doesn't agree with the dino to bird theory. Also considering the bird record according to the fossil record goes back to 225 mil years. So, there wouldn't be adequate record for any dino's to have evolved into birds at all. Fish with legs... well there are fossil records of such things but no one knows if they are actually just a separate species or whether they did any evolving at all. No one has proved that any species has made a leap to another species in any way. I would suspect that as science becomes more and more accurate that the current theory of evolution will be about extinct
by Shawn D
5/13/2008 @ 1:22pm
How can you say that dinosaurs and birds aren't related though? just because one bird guy doesn't believe it? Yes, there were birds along side dinosaurs, but the first true birds didn't evolve until the late Jurassic to mid Cretaceous, probably between 150-120 million years ago. That was way after small theropods began evolving bird-like adaptations.
Now...as for not being able to prove any of that...we have tons of evidence for the connection, and very little evidence that doesn't support it, but I'm sure there's some out there, there always is. The latest evidence is DNA, so disprove that. Keep in mind, not all dinosaurs evolved into their bird-like bretheren, and to exclude those that do in favor of those that don't is bad science.
The first dinosaurs evolved aroud 225-230 million years ago, so yes, I suppose that you can technically say the lineage of birds actually goes back to the mid to late Triassic.
And actually, the bird hipped-dinosaurs have no lineage to birds, it's the lizard-hipped dinosaurs that contain the theropoda, which, cladistically, is the line that lead to modern day birds. Palentology back in the day when they were figuring out the names up for the clades had less than a fraction of the evidence we have now. Unfortunately, we're stuck *until further notice* with their organization and naming of the dinosaur family tree.
Now, lay down some concrete evidence on me about Biblical creation? I believe I've given some backing to at least a few portions of the scientific theory of neo-Darwinism via natural selection (as others would say the modern theory of evolution). I'm just waiting on something from Intelligent Design to come forward.
There hasn't been a single shred of evidence to support Intelligent Design as a theoretical idea. It's a great belief, but a lousy idea. That's what separates the two and what makes it so a Christian can also be an evolutionist. It's an idea vs. a belief, which is a moot subject making it so both can co-exist at least in some aspects.
It's easy to change ideas...but nearly impossible to change a belief.
-Erin
by Erin
5/15/2008 @ 7:36pm
Hey Erin! Sorry it took so long to get back, been a busy boy. I am aware that bats are not completely blind, but as you point out, they are nearly blind at night. I brought this subject up to hopefully cause our minds to wonder how echolocation could have developed through evolution. Which would possibly lead to pondering how DNA came into existence through evolution, when protein cannot exist without DNA, and DNA cannot exist without protein. The protein that reads the DNA is itself coded for by the DNA. So, the protein could not be there first since its code or order is contained in the DNA that it decodes. Proteins would have to decode themselves before they could exist. So obviously, without the protein there first, the DNA would never be read and the protein would never be made. Likewise, the DNA could not have been there first since DNA is made and maintained by the proteins of the cell. They were both created at the same time By The God who calls out to you and i to turn from our rejection of Him, and our rebellion against Him, and our relentless list of excuses we use to deny Him, including others hypocrycies and failures to live up to what they say they believe, to all the horrors that a loving God could not possibly allow if He truly loved. You are an intelligent person Erin, you know that order does not come from chaos. You know that entropy is real, and that this universe is dying.The Bible has much to say about this,and in one particular place it proclaims, " For the creation itself was subject to frustration, not by it's own choice, but by the will of the One who subjected it, knowing that the creation itself will be liberated from the bondage to decay." (Romans 8:20-21) God set entropy in motion when man sinned. God also promises in 2 Peter 3:10, "But the Day of the Lord will come like a theif. The heavens will disappear with a roar, and the elements will be destroyed by fire." Then He promises a new heaven and earth will be created, where all who know Him will live for eternity. You know there is 'dark matter', an unknown force, holding the universe together. Christ says He created and holds all things together by the word of His mouth. Considering the analogy about the car and the road to enlightenment, the person who discovers the complexities of the combustion engine would not, i believe, disregard the fact that somebody first designed and then built the car. I do not assume something was not created, just because i figure out how it was created. Man is forever attempting to get to the bottom of whatever he is studying, to ultimately prove there is no God, so he can escape his need for cleansing from his sinful, prideful heart. The interesting thing is, we cannot in our finite state reach the bottom of anything.The end of the Atom(quarks?), still searching. The edge of the universe, still searching. The salvation and forgivness so crucial, found In Jesus Christ alone. Intelligent Design has all of creation as it's base. As I asked in the first post, how does a sperm egg know where to go? What is guiding it? Who told it what to do? How does a cell know how to function? Who tells the mitochondria to do it's job? Does it all go back to the quark? Or the 'thing' that makes up the quark? when you hold your hand in front of your face, do you ever wonder who, or what set the dimensions of your fingers? Why do you think? Why do you create? Why do you have a conscience? Why do you feel guilt? Humans are the only created beings who have these capacities, because we are made in His image. He made us with souls, the ability to think, feel and act, that will live forever. Those souls who believe in Christ for the redemption of their souls are His. those who do not are not. Erin, without disrespect, Come back to the Savior of your Soul. You can spend the rest of your life studying who He is, or you can spend the rest of your life trying to prove to yourself the one who created you does not exist.
by isaac
5/19/2008 @ 1:24pm
They have created proteins in lab tests that join with other proteins to form a building block of DNA, from a report I read a long while ago...but I haven't done extensive research in this field (I study vertebrate paleontology mostly, focusing on dinosaurs). I can't give you an adequate answer as to the origins of life on this planet, but don't take that as a prop for Intelligent Design, it just means that I need to do some more studying in that field.
I'm not out to prove that God doesn't exist. Maybe he/she does, maybe he/she doesn't. I think that, metaphysically, homans are in control of a lot more than we even realize. We can change, completely alter, the growth of a crystal just by the sound or tone of our voice or our perception or intention.
Humans are pretty amazing. Now, whether you believe that the Christian God is the force behind this, that's fine. Like I've said, a belief is something unique to a specific person or people.
Now...as for the whole thing you touched on of there being a designer and creator, please don't relate it to a watch forming from a pile of watch pieces randomly shaken in a bag. It seems that you wanted to use it but went in another direction. Of course a watch has a watch maker, and a building has an architect, and a painting has a painter - they're all inanimate and therefore moot in this conversation. That doesn't prove the we were created by God or that everything else was. If anything, that helps the case for Evolution rather than ID.
Is the idea that God created evolution blasphemous? Everyone is quick to accept change and adaptation, but unwilling to accept evolution (which is basically changes and adaptations over a greater period of time for both macro and micro).
Do you actually believe that God used the Roman/Gregorian calendar? That in seven, 24 hour days the world was created (along with everything in it) and then there was a single day of rest?
Great if you do, great if you don't. The brilliant thing about America is that I have the ability to believe in what I see and/or what I believe. Have i seen God before? i don't know. Maybe. Have I experienced true miracles? Or were they merely the effects of decisions made by my conscious and subconscious mind? Good question. The more we learn about ourselves, the more we see that we may have created a God in our own image.
Not to put down religion. Many good things have been birthed from religion. And yes, I used the word birthed. Has anyone actually thought about why there are so many different religions and Gods in this world? is it all the same God showing him/herself to different races and groups?
Religion is created when something is unexplainable. The big questions...how did we get here? What are we here for? What is the meaning of life on this planet?...are hard to answer with and without religion.
Honestly...if you ask someone those three questions, 90% of the time you will get different ansers. My answer will be different than yours, for example.
I'm here, not just to serve myself, (honestly...who doesn't do this), but to also figure my way through the complexities of life, learn more about myself, and figure out where I came from and the ways of the natural world.
I don't need a book telling me that I, and everyone else, came from a single couple that interbred to create a world full of people. I don't need a book to tell me how a supernatural being created everything I see and that it hasn't changed and will never change until all the world is dead because we aren't able to evolve to the changes.
I can't believe that. Not just because I've lost my faith in Christianity, but because my brain just refuses to work that way. There's so much more to life than a book, or the fact that what people tell you is how it is. I'm so very proud of my conscious thought, whether it was created by God or that over a period of 4-5 million years hominids gradually grew a larger brain with a capacity for so much more than we even know now as it is.
We aren't the only animals on the planet to form conscious thoughts, have feelings, or know how to express them. The thing that's always separated man from other animals is our skills for thinking, learning, comprehending, and the use of tools.
Well...other animals are catching up to us. Look up videos and papers on chimpanzees and gorillas that are able to speak through sign language, paint elegant and thoughtful paintings. Look up the social structures of elephant families and the fact that they can also paint vivid pictures of emotions going through their heads. They express pain, sadness, happiness...all of these things that we've always held specifically our own.
I don't need my soul to be saved. if it does come to the day where I meet who ever was in charge of this orchestration, I would sencerely hope that he/she is proud of me for how much I've accomplished as a human being without the clauses that a "loving God" shouldn't have. And yes, I know that in Acts (I think) it's not by works but by our faith that we are granted everlasting life.
I relate it to this:
A mother and her son love each other so much. The mother tells the son, "Always do as I say and obey me as much as you can. I know you will fail at this and make mistakes, but I will always forgive you. For one day, I will ask of you something ultimate. This day will be a day of my choosing, not of yours. And if you have disobeyed me, or contradicted me in any way without repentence by this time, I will remove you from my sight, lock you in a room, never look at you, feed you, or care for you ever again."
That, my friend, is fear in its most eloquent form. I can't see how a loving God, who's givin us free will by the way, can choose to deny me at his/her convenience, the right to be myself with or without conforming to his/her ideals.
Now...that being said, this is coming from someone who's been burned by the church many times. Who's see bad advice lead to terrible situations that ruin lives. What I've said in my statements isn't that there is no God, merely that there's a way to explain creation and evolution if his/her ways are indeed mysterious.
if this is how I learn about the natual world, by doing science, how am I disproving God? If I find that incorporating a group of lizards to a previously uninhabited island creates a sub species, a new variety of lizard over the span of a bout 40 years, could that be a vow against God?
Certainly not. God and evolution can coexist, but only if you are open-minded to both God and science. I've seen chaos form order, in my life and several others. I've seen many wonders that the Bible and our knowledge of God, any god, just can't explain - but science can.
If you choose to say that science is trying to lead you from the path God has set before you, you are choosing to turn a blind eye to, what could be, His/Her explanation of the natural order of things. There are more things in this world than Christians and evolutionists, much much more. Things we can't see or comprehend...
...but we're getting there. On both fronts...we're getting there.
by Erin
7/25/2008 @ 1:10pm
Can anyone help me out with a movie that came out that showed how real events on Earth coincide with all the major events in the bible?proving that both can exist..
by jean-marc
10/14/2008 @ 7:26am
Hey Erin, nice comments. I really appreciate your open-minded responses and how you display your beliefs without putting anyone down. As an Adventist, I have to say that I don't totally agree with you. In your most recent comment you described how God was like a mother, threatening to condemn her child to oblivion unless the they both agree. I can see where you ae coming from, but I don't necessarily consider that to be obediance by fear. God is still giving us the chance to change, meaning He actually gives us time to think over. Personally, I believe you are on your way to discover the truth. God is allowing you think things through before coming to a conclusion. Thta's why He gave you free will. Before I end this comment, I would like to state something my teacher told me. Unless you wrestle with the Bible and sincerely try to understnad, you will never honestly have a clear view of what you believe in. So Erin, stay cool bro. Hope you discover tha truth soon. Seeya round.
by James
10/16/2008 @ 7:51am
Isaac, bro, you are an awesome person! I beleive that your answer really gave Erin the evidence for Intelligent Design that he really needs. And Erin? I want to add on to what Isaac said. You say there isn't concrete evidence for ID? Well, I beg to differ. First, you say that birds evolved from dinosaurs. Well, your theory does make sense, but consider this. What if our Creator made the animals that inhabit, and inhabited our world, similar? Maybe He was smart enough to think about making His designs centered around one theme. Now, wouldn't it be strange if Earth would to be inhabited by beings of different shape, size, thought, and even essence? He made us similar to each other so we could relate to all of HIs creations. But this also takes me to my next topic. We, the humans, are the undisputably the most advanced form of life on this planet. I'm sure you have analyzed and compared us humans to different species, but look once more. We don't even come close in structure or design to any other species. It would seem that we might even be made to rule over them. Now, why is that? It's because we were specially made in the image of the Creator. I might be wrong, but I assume you believe in us evolving from atoms? Well, anyway, look at all the features that come together to making a human. Now, look at an atom. What is an atom but a small peice of slightly inanimate material? Now, while it might be possible for atoms to get together and produce mechanical movement, how in the universe is it possible for an atom, a structure with no initial mind or will or any living essence, to come together and form thought processes, or to be more specific, emotions? Do atoms cause us to produce thoughts that seem so complex in structure? Is the ability to dream, to hope, to want something that mechanical processses are responsible for? Is "I love you" a respone we give only because a process in our mind started to work and made us click?Is the happiness you get when you see a loved one the result of atoms winding together and producing a result that is explainable by numbers? Can love, an emotion that is capable of crossing boundaries in so many ways, be the result of atoms just flowing together in circles? How is it possible that a mix of random materials can produce the uniquenesss evident in each and every one of us? If we are all structured by the same building block, why are humans so different? Why do we think differently from each other? How do we explain the fact of personality? Through numbers and formulas? Hardly convincing. Now, you, Erin, and many other Evolutionists out there might be asking "Well, you're just asking us questions we haven't found the answer to. How do you explain all of this human complexity, huh?" Well, my fellow human friends, I believe that the only possible way in the universe and beyond that we, humans, are so unique and have traits no other species have to the extent that we do, is because God, our Creator, put that special breath of life into us. That wonderful and super awesome gift that allows us to love, to dream, to think such complex thoughts. We are made up of two things. Physically, we are naught but clay that God used to form us. Mentally and spiritually, we are full of the amazing power God bestowed on us. The power that sets us apart from all of His other creations. That breath that grants each single human on the earth his and her uniqueness. That is my evidence for Intelligent Design. We may continue to ask ourselves questions, but I'm content with knowing that my God is so cool and so awesome, there's no way I can fully comprehend His actions. So Isaac, thanks for giving a good response and Erin, thanks for also being understanding. Well, I hope you can one day come to understand the Truth. And remember, you might not find all the answers, but you'll find the one answer that will make everything make sense. So thanks for reading. I'm out! Later!
by Sir Not-Appearing-In-This-Flim
10/16/2008 @ 8:00am
Btw, Erin? Your style is cool. Logical, practical, and still searching. Keep it up.
by Santiago